Question - Beloved Master, L. Ron Hubbard's work
focuses on clearing the mind, Whereas you often speak of dropping the
Mind. What is the difference? Please comment.
Osho - Anand Salam, L. Ron Hubbard's work is psychological, it is not spiritual. To clear the mind is a psychological work: to drop the mind is a spiritual revolution. Clearing the mind you remain attached to the mind, and howsoever you clear it, it remains. Even if the glass wall is absolutely transparent and you can see outside as clearly as if you are outside, still you are not outside. The very clear, absolutely transparent glass wall still keeps you imprisoned. You can see the butterflies in the sun, you can see flowers, you can see birds flying in the sky, you can see clouds and the moon and the stars....
And if you don't try to get out you may remain in the deception that you are out in the open. But if you try to get out, you are in for a great surprise: there is a transparent wall that prevents you -- you are still a prisoner. The mind can be made very clear, but the mind remains. In fact the more clear it is, the more you will be deceived by it -- because it will become more and more transparent. You will not feel enclosed by it, you will become identified with it. And the clear mind will give you great insights, great visions -- of light, of love, of the beyond -- and you may start thinking that you are having spiritual experiences. NO experience is ever spiritual; ALL experiences are psychological. To go beyond your psychology is what I mean when I say drop the mind.
Hubbard's work is very ordinary; it should be part of the psychological literature. But in the West people have forgotten completely what spirituality is all about; hence it is very easy to deceive. And I am not saying that Hubbard is deceiving others -- he may be deceived himself. He has a clear mind and his processes are good as far as clearance of the mind is concerned, but it is not spiritual work. It cannot take you to the eternal and it cannot make you aware of your innermost core. It keeps you identified with the mind, and the more mind becomes clear and beautiful, the more you become attached to it because the more precious it looks. And when it starts giving you visions and spiritual experiences, then it becomes absolutely impossible to drop it. It is easier to drop an unclear, confused mind; it is difficult to drop a clear mind.
So I am not interested in making your mind clear. My whole effort is to make you aware of your confused mind, to make you aware of your ill mind, to make you aware of your insanities, to make you aware of your schizophrenia, to make you aware of your whole pathology, so that you are bound to drop it, you cannot cling to it anymore. And the moment mind is dropped, the moment you know you are not the mind, a mutation has taken place. You are transported into another world; you have entered into the world of consciousness.
The body is there. The physiologists work on it and they think the body is all -- they don't even believe in mind. Mind is an epiphenomenon, just a by-product; it is nothing but the functioning of the body. Then there are psychologists who think man is more than the body: he is psychology, he is mind, he is not just the body. But their mind also is going to die with the body; maybe it is separate but it cannot exist on its own.
The psychologist has not moved very far away from the physiologist. And in fact psychology and physiology are two aspects of the same coin. Man is neither body nor mind but both: man is bodymind, man is psychosomatic. The body affects the mind, the mind affects the body; hence they are not separate. You drink alcohol; the alcohol goes into the body but affects the mind. You can take LSD or marijuana; it goes in the body, it changes the chemistry of the body, but immediately your mind is totally different.
Even a man like Aldous Huxley was deceived by LSD. He thought that under the impact of LSD what he was experiencing was exactly what Kabir had experienced in his mystic experiences, in his mystic world. A man like Huxley, a man of far more clear mind than Hubbard, got deceived. He thought that, "We have found the shortcut to spiritual experience: LSD is enough. There is no need now to fast for years, no need to stand on your head for years, no need to torture your body, no need to do the old, ancient austerities. Those are bullock-cart methods, and we are in a jet age and we have found a spiritual shortcut -- LSD." He was deceived because he also thought that the mind is all. And LSD can give you great mental experiences because it can change your mind.
Change the body, the mind changes. Change the mind, the body changes. That's how hypnosis works. If you are hypnotized and told that tomorrow you are going to have a great fever, if it is insisted again and again and you are conditioned that tomorrow, early morning, as you wake up you will find yourself with a great fever.... Nothing has been done to the body, just your mind has been conditioned: tomorrow morning you are going to suffer from fever. One can even die.
In 1952, a few countries of the world made laws against hypnosis. They made it clear that only authorized hypnotists can be allowed to hypnotize people, because in one of the universities of America a great accident happened. Four students, all psychology students, were studying about hypnosis and the history of hypnotism, and they became intrigued and they wanted to try it. So they hypnotized one of their friends; he must have been really very vulnerable.
Thirty-three percent of people are very vulnerable; out of three one person is very ready to be hypnotized. These thirty-three percent are the problem in the world; up to now they have been the problem: anybody can hypnotize them. Adolf Hitler depended on these thirty-three percent, Mao Zedong depended on these thirty-three percent. All wars, all fanatic crusades, have depended on these thirty-three percent. One third of the people of the world are very prone, very ready, to be hypnotized.
By coincidence that boy must have been one of those people, and those three tried hard to hypnotize him. They hypnotized him and they were feeling great, because whatsoever they were saying, he was doing. They told him to dance, he danced. They told him that, "This is very hot water," and they gave him ice-cold water, and he could not drink it. He said, "It is too hot, my mouth will be burned." And they were surprised when they put a small pebble on the palm of the hypnotized person and told him that, "This is fire." He was already burned, immediately burned, actually burned -- by a cold pebble. They became more and more intrigued by the whole phenomenon.
They tried the last thing. They told the person to lie down and they told him, "You are dead!" -- and he died. Then they tried hard to wake him up, but it was too late. Because of that incident many countries have made laws against hypnosis. Only authorized professionals should be allowed to use it because it can be dangerous. It can affect your mind, and through the mind your body. Mind and body are not separate, but YOU are a third entity. You are in the body, in the mind, but you are not identified with them. You are a witnessing consciousness.
My work is totally different from Hubbard's work: his work is psychological, my work is spiritual. My effort here is not to give you a clear mind; my effort here is to give you a state of no-mind, because only through no-mind will you be able to know the reality -- the reality within and the reality without. But the no-mind is the door, the only door.
Source - Osho Book "Dhammapada, Vol 3"
Related Osho Discourses:
L. Ron Hubbard