Spiritual Practices are Obstructions to Awakening (Madhukar Interview with Kiranji) Continued..... Madhukar: You seem to say, "Nothing can be done, no teacher can help, no technique or method, and no meditation practice can cause enlightenment to happen." On the other hand, I see seekers come to you for advice and guidance. And I even notice people sitting in your meditation room to meditate. Did you teach a meditation technique to those people? Kiranji: No. I don't give Any techniques. I Stick to What I say, "Nothing can help!" Sitting with me is not of any help as long as you're not awakened and as long as you have a demand for doing something. I don't claim to be a master. I am just sitting here as a friend helping you. I am not helping you in the sense that I teach you something or because I know something which you don't know. It is as if you are just closing your eyes and you are crying, "I can't see the light." I say, "Just open your eyes and you will see that the light is here." This is how I can help. I am telling you, "Just open your eyes!" For you, even "Open your eyes" may seem to imply some doing. How can I explain it better? How can I convey to you that "Open your eyes" is not a doing? I have to use the words. Awakening is not even the effort to open your eyes. It is just waking up. It is as if you wake up from your sleep. I am seeing you all asleep, dreaming, and crying. I am just shaking you and waking you up. I say, "Please, wake up! Don't cry! No dreams!" This is what I am doing here. I allow the people to sit in the meditation room because they are in the habit of meditating for many, many years. As long as they still want to enjoy their dreams, they can sit in meditation. I want to keep them with me. I let them sit in the hall so that they don't escape. (laughter) But I am waiting for the opportunity to hit them and shake them again and again and shout at them, "Please, wake up!" This is what I am doing.(laughter) I am not proposing any method or any doings whatsoever. So if they enjoy sitting there, fine. I know I don't sit there. Madhukar: But you Sit here as a teacher. Kiranji: When they come out of the hall, I hit them again. I ask them, "What are you doing there?" Madhukar: What are they doing there? Kiranji: I am providing a space for them to sleep. When they come close to me, I shake them again. I try to wake them up in the hope that they will awaken at some point. Madhukar: Can you do it just now? Please hit me! Please, Wake me up once and for all. Kiranji: I am doing it. We are doing it now. That's what we are doing in this conversation. Madhukar: I know. Kiranji: But you are enjoying the dream. What can I do? Madhukar: What would you do to me if I came out of the meditation room at this moment and sat down opposite you? Kiranji: This is a dream. You are enjoying it. I am sharing my awakening with you, although I know it is of no use to you. It has no meaning at all. If I try to wake you up all the time, I become your enemy. I want to remain your friend. That's why I can't keep on going hitting and shaking. Once in while I have to be friendly to you. Madhukar: Is that why you share dinner after satsang in your house?(laughter) Kiranji: Yes. I want to remain your friend. Sometimes it is difficult for you because I must beat you hard. I know you will run away from here. But there is no other way. Sometimes I have to become very hard. There is no other way Madhukar: You claim not to have a teaching. On the other hand, you are suggesting three points to the seeker: one, accept existence as it is: two, accept yourself as you are: and three, be totally aware of everything you do. For me these suggestions imply that something actually can be done for enlightenment to happen. To whom are you talking to? Who is the listener? Kiranji: This question is asked by the mind. It's a logical question. You know who I'm talking to and who is listening and who is ready for this acceptance. You know it very well. What I really want to say I cannot convey with words. But when I speak to you I have to use words. That's why I express the three suggestions: surrender to existence with total trust; accept yourself as you are with love; do everything with total awareness. These are the three suggestions I keep telling people in order to enable them to stop their efforts and search. You think that I am giving you a method or a technique when I share my suggestions. If you simply live my suggestion in this very moment, you will find that you are instantly being brought back to your own self. Those suggestions are calling you back to your own home. A mother is calling her children from the window of the house, "Come children, the meals are ready " The mother wants the children to come home. To make them come home she tempts them with foods or chocolates. I am doing the same thing with you. I want you to come back to your own home. My suggestions are temptations with which I try to coax you home. Their purpose is to call you back, to call you back to your own home. In surrender to existence all your efforts drop automatically. For long you have tried to achieve something through the ego. You wanted to mark your place in this world. When you surrender, you come to realize that you are nothing before existence. In existence, you are just a tiny dot. What can you claim as yours in this vast existence? In it, everything is just happening. You think you can go your own way just because you want it. That's ridiculous! Where do you reach? The human being has reached the moon. So what! It has reached the top of Everest. So what! It has reached the bottom of the ocean. So what! Great achievements! What you are calling great achievements by the human being has no value at all in the spiritual realm. They are like the climb of an ant from the ground to the top of the microphone. The ant's climb means nothing. The achievements of the human being mean nothing as well. But for the ego they mean a lot. Remember, you are nobody in this vast existence. The whole existence is working since billions of years. What impact are you going to have on this existence during your short life of sixty, eighty or a hundred years? Basically no impact! You must have trust in existence which has given you life on this earth. Let Cod decide what is going to happen to you. Why bother? Listen to existence which speaks as your own inner voice and follow it. Trust that he knows what is best for you. Let existence decide your destination. You don't decide it. This let-go is indicated by my suggestion to surrender to existence with trust. Your surrender to the existence in the outer world is cutting short the outer journey of worldly achievements. "Accept yourself as you are" is stepping inwards. The acceptance of yourself as you are is cutting short the inner journey. You give up all demands for inner growth and inner achievements. Without an inner search, an inner journey and a spiritual growth, there is love. You start loving yourself. Hate is rooted in the non-acceptance of yourself and in the desire to become somebody else. Non-acceptance and hate go together. Not only on the outside but also on the inside you want to improve yourself. You want to get rid of all the diseases of the mind like anger, hatred, and jealousy. You keep doing therapy groups and all such nonsense. You keep cleaning the mind. All these activities are part of the inner search. I say, "Why waste time. Just accept yourself as you are. Cut off your inner and outer search altogether!" Acceptance brings love. Then a miracle happens which nobody believes. Surrender and acceptance bring you to the point of witnessing and, to reach this, no doing, effort, practice, or method was necessary. By accepting yourself, you are cutting the roots of the mind. The mind survives only as long as you desire to become something. When there is no becoming, there is no goal. Without a goal where is the mind? Now it is just a beautiful instrument. The moment you accept the mind, which was fighting all the time to become something, the problem is finished. Then you are not fighting with the mind. You don't try to win over the mind. You are not cleaning the mind. This mind is the mud. When you leave it alone, the mud starts settling by itself. Because there is acceptance, the mud settles. Without any effort or any doing the mind starts to become quiet. Through acceptance, not through any effort, the mind settled down and became quiet. This is a miracle. Your mind will not accept it. It will ask, "How is this peace, silence, and joy possible without doing and effort?" Although you were searching in all directions, you couldn't find peace and joy. That's why I call it a miracle. The moment you accept yourself and you listen to the inner voice of existence, you suddenly become a witness. The doer, which is the mind, dissolves. The ego dissolves. When you keep simply witnessing, you will suddenly begin to realize that you are "just looking" and everything is "just happening." The sudden recognition and awakening to the fact arise that you are not part of the whole worldly rut of problems and sorrow and misery, but that you are part of the whole beautiful existence. Now you are just witnessing and watching what happens. Now you are just following your inner voice and your inner force wherever they take you. You got rid of all your bondage, bindings and clingings by surrendering to the existence. You let things happen and you float in the current of events. You don't swim. You float in the acceptance of "What-is" and what you are. When you just relax in the water, the miracle occurs. The current takes you wherever it wants and you accept it. The current has no destination. This current is the force that comes through from inside. You keep floating according to the inner voice and the inner current. They are tuned with the life force which is moving them at all times. Floating in this manner is so beautiful. You just keep floating without any effort or any fight. You just keep watching and witnessing. Now you are enjoying the whole existence. When you don't let yourself be pulled down by any burden and you stay relaxed, you will suddenly notice a lot of joy springing up. Silence begins to bubble up because there is no hindrance of any kind. And the existence starts expressing itself through your personality. Without any effort you suddenly become quiet. You suddenly become joyful. Joy starts bubbling up because you are so relaxed. Love starts flowing from you. Energy starts flowing from you. Fragrance starts flowing from you, the fragrance of existence. Joy, love, beauty, and fragrance are the qualities of existence. When you are still, you are in oneness with existence, which is your own space. Then you have come back to your own home. You have come back to your natural state and you remain there for good. To be in oneness, joy, and love becomes your way of life. You simply live moment to moment. You celebrate each moment with joy. For you, there is no fight anywhere. You are enjoying each moment. You enjoy wherever comes your way. This is what I want to share. Madhukar: I would like to switch the focus. Many of your visitors are longtime Osho sannyasins. Do they come to you because they hope to become enlightened with you? What is their quest? Kiranji: You have to ask them, not me. Madhukar: Let me rephrase the question. Is there something common in their quest? Do they have the same or similar questions? Kiranji: Yes. When they come for the first time their common quest is enlightenment. Normally they have the same questions about enlightenment and whatever they've heard about it. They are waiting for a specific happening. They are waiting for "the thousand suns to explode." They want enlightenment. They come with all these questions about enlightenment. When they come to me, I blast their questions. That's all. I blow their questions away. I hit them very hard. I make them realize what I have told you during the last hour or so. I talk to them about the use of the mind. I am telling them what their situation is. I make them understand it. I explain how they can come out of it. They feel better after listening to me. They understand and realize what I say. I don't know whether they are practicing what I am telling them. But I can see their smiling faces when they come out of their frustrations. After visiting me for the first time, 1 can see their faces lighten up. They start smiling. They become relaxed. Madhukar: You know Osho's sannyasins well because you were with Osho for so long. You are an insider. How is a sannyasin's mind conditioned? What attitudes do sannyasins have toward enlightenment and towards you as a teacher? Could you talk about your impressions? Kiranji: Your observation is correct. Many of the people who visit me have been with Osho for many years. First, I want to point out that they are still in search of something. Second, I came to conclusion that they are waiting for the last jump. Everything that is necessary has been done by them. They have completed all their homework. Only because of their fear they could not take the last jump yet. When they come to me, they need only the last push and they are there. I can read it in their faces. These people were sitting with Osho for many years during which they did all his meditations. Now they have reached the point of total frustration. That's a great achievement. It requires great courage to be honest about oneself and to admit that one is still the same person that one was many years ago. It requires great courage to admit that nothing has changed. The sannyasins who are coming to me have the courage to accept their true situation. Deep within themselves they know that they have not changed. But the other sannyasins rather save their face. They live with dishonesty. They are not able to ask in disbelief, "How can it be possible that I have lived with Osho for so many years and I have not gotten anything yet? If I am honest, I must say I have not changed at all." The people who are coming to me are honest people. They are near their goal. Their honesty can bring them what they are searching for. Honesty is the first condition in the spiritual world. You have to be very honest with yourself. In spirituality you can't cheat yourself. If you are cheating yourself, you will be cheating everybody else, too. If awakening is not happening, be honest to yourself and say, "It is not happening." If there is no change in you, you must accept that there is no change. But what about the great investment of so many years? Mind will say, "How can I accept this? I have invested so much of my time, my money, my energy, my faith-everything." People will laugh at you if you leave the ashram tomorrow and you tell them, "I am still the same person that I was before." The ego that was created by your spiritual environment doesn't allow you to accept this fact. If you are not honest enough to accept this fact, there is no chance for you to awaken. Rather, you will remain in your dream. That's all. On the other hand, honesty provides you a chance to wake up because somewhere you are aware that you are still dreaming. Genuine people are aware that they are still dreaming. Such people come to me. Others may say that they are searching by serving the master. Those people don't come to me. I would say that, to date, the purpose of Osho's efforts remains unfulfilled. If his people keep staying in their dreams by remaining unconscious, his dream is not fulfilled. That's how I see it. If you are awakened, you don't need to go somewhere else and meet somebody else and try to find It. You can remain in the ashram if you are awakened. If you have not reached and you are not Cod, admit it! Say, "I have been with Osho for so many years but nothing has changed with me!" Be honest with yourself! Why carry a false face? Why move with hypocrisy and hide your face behind Osho? Why all the time project Osho? Madhukar: Supposedly Osho's last words were, "I leave you my dream." Does Osho mean that we should be aware of the difference between a dream and reality? Kiranji: Well, if you really understand Osho and what he is, you can understand his dream. Throughout his life he tried to create a Buddhafield in which each of his sannyasins can flower as a Buddha. He wanted all his sannyasins to be Buddhas. He wanted thousands of Buddhas. That is his dream. His efforts were directed towards this goal. His whole life he was struggling and striving for his dream to come true. He created a Buddhafield so that his dream would become a realization. While leaving his body he had to say, "I leave my dream with you. One day all of you will know your Buddhahood. This is my dream." I don't know how much of his dream has been fulfilled up to date. Note: "This article is published with the permission from www.kiranji.com. Audios, Videos and Discourses of Kiran Bhai are available in the website for Seekers. (Highly recommended for sincere seekers) Related Article : "Kiran Bhai life" "Kiran Bhai Enlightenment" |
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Osho | Gautam Buddha | Jiddu Krishnamurti | Ramakrishna | Ramana Maharshi | Gurdjieff